Looking at the impact of mental health and extremism, Sarah an Exit Hate Family Support Worker interviews George, a recipient of Exit Hate support.
1. Today, I’m talking to George about mental health and extremism. George became mentally unwell towards the end of his time at university, and he then got involved with the far right online. So thank you for joining us, George. Could I start by asking you: were you involved in politics at all earlier on at university?
Yes, I’d always been interested in politics, in a more typical way. I campaigned for Labour in a general election, as I supported some of their policies. And I also did some campaigning to lobby my university to adopt more green policies to combat climate change.
2. That sounds reasonable enough. So what went wrong for you towards the end of your studies?
A couple of things were going wrong. Firstly, I was getting lonely. Covid really didn’t help. When I wasn’t at home, I spent several months isolated in my room at college. And by my third year, I ended up with a less strong social network than I’d started with. Since then, I’ve been diagnosed with autism, so while I sometimes miss things socially, I now know to be gentle with myself about it.
The second problem was that my sleep patterns became hugely disrupted. That was partly due to the loneliness – I was looking for company online too late into the night. I was also working too hard, doing essays through the night. I ended up with totally erratic sleeping hours, sometimes going to bed at breakfast-time. Not surprisingly, my work suffered from that as I couldn’t think straight. And also, that made my isolation greater, as I often wasn’t about in the day to meet people.
3. That sounds really stressful. So what happened then?
Well, I didn’t know it at the time, but I became mentally ill. I became hugely turbulent emotionally, swinging from exhilaration when the work was going well to rage or despair. I spoke a few times to the Samaritans who did their best to help.
I also became paranoid. For example, I believed that China was out to get me personally and my life was in danger.
I also developed some crazily inflated beliefs about myself. For example, I play guitar and piano a bit and write the odd song, but I became convinced that I was going to be the next major music superstar, and I thought I was already a world-class performer. That wasn’t entirely realistic, given that the sum total of my professional career to that point was one pub gig playing background music for £60. I learned much later that this paranoia and grandiosity were classic symptoms of an episode of mental illness.
4. That sounds alarming. So how did that lead to your far-right involvement?
It was all the time I was spending online. I was a fan of an American singer who has far-right views. So when I joined fan groups on social media, I started being exposed to those views, which were normalised in those groups.
For example, the singer has many followers who espouse transphobic views. I had previously been proud to support all forms of diversity. But the sites had many transphobic materials, with disturbing images of supposedly botched gender-affirmation surgery, and claims that trans people are predatory towards children. It’s easy to see now that these were pure propaganda with no evidence, but at the time, they fitted my paranoid mindset. I began to believe alt-right theories that transgender people were somehow a threat to children, as well as women and straight men.
One fan who befriended me spread many of these materials. Like me, she believed she was being persecuted and that she had no choice but to fight back. Looking back, I don’t think she was mentally well at the time either.
That insecurity and paranoia was a common feature of the conspiracy theories on these sites. For example, the American singer believed that the Chinese government was using ethnic minorities to control the west, fuelling his racism, and fuelling racism in his followers. That seems to be a common argument in the American extreme right, or ‘alt right’ as it tends to be called in the US. And many of the members of these groups are troubled young white men, as I was. So these conspiracy theories provided plenty of people for these lonely young men to blame for their troubles. I had the added difficulty of being neurodiverse; I was recently diagnosed with autism. Specialists tell me this undiagnosed neurodiversity may have contributed to mental illness and therefore my radicalisation online.
The alt right also uses paranoia as a political weapon. For example, I saw propaganda that portrayed Democrats in America such as President Biden as paedophiles. They argued that so many people they disagreed with were paedophiles that I even came to half-believe my own parents were paedophiles – though even then I could see that didn’t quite make sense.
5. Was your involvement with the extreme right purely online?
Pretty much. No-one I knew in the UK was involved with the extreme right, thankfully. Though at one point, I flew to the US to meet some of the people I had encountered in online alt-right spaces. I didn’t even have enough money for accommodation when I got there, but I got on the flight anyway. High risk-taking, I’ve learned, is another common symptom of the mental illness I had. I thought I was going for a big political event, and I expected to meet an American presidential candidate. In fact, I thought I could run his campaign, though I was just a British graduate with little real-world experience. But the event turned out to be just a small group of amateur musicians who were fans of the American singer, hanging around and singing a few songs in a park for an afternoon. As I said, I wasn’t thinking straight at the time, and my research of the event was hardly worthy of a university student. But thankfully, no harm was done, and my parents rescued me and got me home safely.
6. What did you like about being involved?
Well, I gained a fake sense of independence and competence. I occasionally felt on top of the world, as if I could do anything. And I sometimes felt a sense of community, though that didn’t last. I wanted to make a positive difference but clearly didn’t achieve that.
Now I’ve recovered from my illness and have therefore escaped involvement, I still want to make a difference, but in a different way. I want to help others leave involvement, and I hope this podcast will help with that. I also want to help others as I enter the jobs market, and I am eager to choose a career that draws on my skills while contributing to society. In this way, while I wanted to make a difference when I was involved, I am only really able to make a difference (albeit a relatively small one) now I have left and am better.
7. What didn’t you like about being involved?
It didn’t stop me feeling lonely and directionless when I stepped away from my laptop or put my phone down. As my sleep routine became even more random, I also felt exhausted all the time. I also felt overwhelmed by the immense task I thought I was taking on of saving the world from China and from centrists and leftists. I became angry and bitter.
8. What made you leave?
My family and friends constantly tried to talk me into reason but I just wasn’t in a state to hear them. My parents consulted a number of people, including the Exit Hate team, who rightly advised that the only route was to get mental health help as a first step, as they thought it sounded like mental illness.
With my parents’ help, my mental illness was diagnosed and treated. Thankfully, this worked really fast. I rapidly became calmer, I slept better, and I recovered my ability to think clearly. The far-right views I’d had when I was ill soon just seemed absurd. As a result, I left all the alt-right networks entirely.
9. How do you look back on your time involved?
I feel sad that this ever happened. I wish I could wind back time and do things differently – but I have to remember it was because I was unwell that I became involved. I didn’t naturally gravitate to those beliefs, and I find it hard to imagine that I ever held them.
I am often full of regret at the hurt I caused, so I’ve apologised to those I can. But I see that this regret can be unproductive if I stay stuck in it, so I try to find peace with my past. And I don’t want to resort to the same blame game that many of the alt-right play. Many of the people I were talking to were clearly damaged too.
Now, I am just trying to learn from my experience. I’m trying to look after myself and follow all the advice I’ve had. And I’m also looking for ways to help other people avoid falling into the same traps that I did.
10. How do you feel about how involvement impacted your family and friendships?
Well, I am deeply sorry for the impact of all this on my family. I wish things had happened differently, for their sake. It must have been really horrible for my parents, who I know were worried sick for me. I also hurt some friends deeply, which I am hugely sorry for.
I have some friends who have stuck with me through thick and thin. I am incredibly grateful for their friendship and support during my recovery. I am sorry I was so horrible when I was unwell. I am also sorry I lost some friendships in the process of my illness and radicalisation. One friend in particular helped me through my illness and recovery, and our friendship is stronger than ever. Thank you for this.
11. What is life like now that you have walked away?
I feel much more myself, though I’m still a bit post-traumatic. I still get anxious, but I am developing tools to deal with this anxiety. My illness and involvement nearly destroyed my life and the wellbeing of those around me, people who I care about more than anything else in the world. But now I thankfully have the chance to rebuild.
I’ve had valuable advice about how to rebuild my life from Exit Hate as well as the mental health professionals. I’m now hugely calmer and happier than I was, and I’ve been enjoying a normal life, working, seeing friends, and so on.
12. What would you say to anyone with a son or daughter involved, how should they deal with it and what should they do?
It’s really difficult, because no-one except the person involved can make the step to end involvement. In my case, my involvement only ended because my illness was treated. So I would urge relatives to consider the possibility of mental illness, and contact their local mental health service to find a path forward for diagnosis and treatment. If the son or daughter resists diagnosis, there is a method of communication called LEAP that can help – my parents used that, and so did a good friend. LEAP stands for Listen, Empathise, Agree, and Partner. It’s basically about showing the person that you’re on their side, and listening to each other rather than fighting. There’s a good book on it called I Am Not Sick: I Don’t Need Help! by a doctor called Xavier Amador.
Other than that, parents or friends might be able to help by seeking alternative experiences that the person involved could benefit from, to give them a sense of community apart from their extremist group. That might be a board game or it might be a social activity such as a running club that could get them out of their room and back in the real world.
13. If anyone is involved and hearing this, what would you like to say to them?
I would say, firstly, look after your wellbeing. It’s easy to take our body and mind for granted. But they can fail you if you don’t see to the basics like sleep, good food and exercise. And nowadays, being moderate on social media should count as an essential basic of life too! Spending too long online can be dangerous.
And secondly, I’d say talk with your friends and family from your old life. Let them in. Let them help. Also consider accepting the help of health services, or even security services, as they may have tools that could free you from the ideology you’re tethered to. These services are truly not the enemy, though in my paranoia I thought they were. I had a call from the Prevent service and personally I found were helpful. The officer said, ‘We’re not the thought police. You’ve committed no offence.’ She suggested I dial down on social media (which I didn’t). I gather she also encouraged the mental health service to prioritise me, which was really helpful. Everyone’s aware now that young people can struggle and need help. And you could ask Exit Hate for a chat with someone who’s been through something similar. So there is light at the end of the tunnel!
14. George please can you tell us about your experience engaging with Exit Hate Trust.
My experience with Exit Hate has been overwhelmingly positive. My friend contacted Exit when I was seriously unwell, and Exit Hate advised this was a mental health problem (which it was). I only heard about Exit Hate when my Mum told me shortly after my illness was diagnosed and treated. I was nervous at first, as I had been told I was unwell, but I hadn’t been told I’d been radicalised. So the experience of having chats with you Sarah was eye-opening, as it made me realise the degree of my radicalisation. Over time it helped me make peace with my past and move on from my experience of being radicalised when I was unwell. I still feel immense regret about being unwell and becoming radicalised, but Exit Hate has supported me on this journey.
15. What would you say to anyone thinking about contacting Exit Hate?
I would urge you to contact Exit because it can’t do any harm and you stand to benefit a lot. Everyone at Exit Hate is kind and warm-hearted; they won’t judge you, they’ll just listen and do their best to help. And that means they’re really helpful. If you have a loved one who is in danger of being radicalised or has been radicalised, then reaching out to Exit Hate is one of the best things you can do. It’s a really transformational experience – nothing changes overnight, but Exit Hate helps you on that journey every step of the way. So do reach out.
Exit Hate Trust would like to thank George for speaking to us about his journey and being so open. It is only by having open and frank conversations will we truly find answers to the issues we have in society today.
Need support? To get mental health support, please visit NHS Mental Health Support
Highlighting how George's involvement in the Extreme Right-Wing was due to his mental illness which has since been diagnosed and treated this now has ended Geoege's involvement, which he deeply regrets.
Sarah
Exit Hate Trust
A podcast of this interview is available on Spotify here - https://open.spotify.com/episode/2W5edqiFQefxCWw9nMHADM?si=f551345beda743dd
Kommentarer